Nov 12 2009

Counterfeit scam warning

We got an email from somebody who fell victim to a scammer in purchasing an Ibanez Jem from a private party. He sent the seller $1,500 by wire for a counterfeit. If you’ve had a similar experience, please send us a line to bryan@gearsecure.net so we can spread the word. In issuing these warnings, we should be able to restrict the market for these scammers. Unfortunately with the economy in the shambles it is, more people are pulling this sort of thing to make money.

In this case, the seller was named Dante Meman, and he was using the email guitar_player1976@hotmail.com, which doesn’t seem to be in use anymore. I’ll get the city and state he lives in in an update.

UPDATE: He is from Adelanto CA.

We’d recommend staying away from buying from this individual at least until we get word of some resolution to the situation. Since he isn’t responding to the buyer, we are assuming he knows he’s selling counterfeits.

We’re working on some new ideas in how to prevent this in the future.


Oct 13 2009

Counterfeit Ibanez Jem Alert

An unfortunate store bought this Counterfeit Ibanez Jem in the other day. This is about a $2,600 guitar, and so the store just lost a lot of money buying an unsellable copy. We present these photos for you to study, hoping you can avoid the same fate. These could walk into your store or be sold on eBay or Craigslist as genuine, so beware.

Side by side, they look pretty good, right? Want to try to guess which is which?

fakefullrealfull

(its on the right)

We’ll start with the most obvious detail, the serial number. Compare a real Jem on the right to the fake, on the left. Click for larger images.

Real

Real

Fake

Fake

First thing you notice is, there is no serial number on the fake, much less any actual standard graphics, just a shoddy printed model number. This should have been a HUGE warning sign to this store. Any name brand guitar that is $2,600 should have a serial number. It is that simple. Even the name brand guitars that are $100 have a serial.

Significantly, you’ll also notice the fake’s tuning machines read “Ibanez” while the real ones are Gotohs. I’m not sure if they always used Gotohs or not, but the example is a current issue. You’ll also see the fake lacks the bolts that hold down the lock nut, and if you’re really observant, you’ll notice that the points on the far left of the real one are actually separate pieces of wood, while the fake is made from one piece.

Real

Real

Fake

Fake

Do you notice how the monkey grip is routed differently? On the real one, it is square and only as thick as the top edge of the guitar. The fake ignores this and follows the contours of the body.

The next significant details is the pickups. First, very hard to show in a picture, the real one has “DiMarzio” inset into the top of them, but not colored in any way.

Other than that, check out these two pictures focusing on the pickups.

Real

Real

Fake

Fake

Notice the middle pickup? The real one has normal slug style pole pieces, while the fake has gold poles. This is a common tell on fakes, something I’ve seen on at least two different fakes.Also notice the knobs. The fake has the more fancy gold knurled knobs, the real one has simple plastic white knobs. If you refer bak to the top pictures, you’ll see that the spacing of the knobs is also off.

Just a couple more things to look at on this one. The Bridge is important.

Real

Real

Fake

Fake

The fake has a standard Floyd Rose, while the Ibanez has an Ibanez specific lo-pro edge trem. Accept no imitations.

Last one, the Headstock.

Real

Real

Fake

Fake

Notice the “Jem” script? On the real one, it’s slim and elegant. On the fake, it’s the same font, but somebody hit the “bold” button.

These are some examples of how to tell the difference on a fake Jem, but it is only one of many fakes from many different factories out there. These are just some of the things you should look for.


Aug 3 2009

Counterfeit Chinese Les Paul Alert

A post in a forum lining to us (thanks for linking to our article, by the way) led me to a new source for counterfeit Les Pauls. I’m going to focus on two, a white Custom and a Zakk Wylde, but this site has all sorts of Les Paul knock-offs. Like usual, I don’t want to send anybody to this site, so I’ll keep the name a secret to everybody but the trademark holder.

Here’s the white Les Paul:

myepmp_20090601161718134161951

Looks fairly good, though the back bout is a little wonky maybe. It is hard to tell, but it looks like regular tolex to me, instead of the Gibson snakeskin. The writing looks a little blurry on the case, but that could be the low quality image. Let’s look at another.

myepmp_2009060116171815013901

Again, I think the back bout is a bit off, and I don’t recognize that Gibson sticker as anything recent. The red smudge is where I blurred the seller’s logo. Often times, the binding on these guitars will not have the proper number of layers, but we can’t tell that from this image. The biggest giveaway is coming.

myepmp_200906011617181504480

Gibson serial numbers are stamped into the wood and painted over, with the exception of several Reissue models, which use stamped paint. The paint on these is usually irregular, splotchy and a little off of a perfectly level line. On a painted white Les Paul, the serial number is hardly legible. If we try to decode the serial number, we find it was made on the 200th day of ’05 and then we come up a digit short, since after July of 2005, they went to a 9 digit serial number.

Time to check out the Zakk

myepmp_2009033121513151521201

The bulls-eye is in the right place. Case is still obviously not a Gibson.

myepmp_2009033121513171828575

Serial number is just a few off of the last guitar. Hmmm… Let’s move down the neck a bit.

myepmp_2009033121513167114896

Wait, is that a nice shiny finish on the back of the neck? Zakks are finished, then the back of the neck is sanded to raw wood.

This site sells these guitars for $374, about the same as a medium end Epiphone Les Paul. I saw one of these on a classified site (actually identified as a copy) for over $700, just so you know the markup on the counterfeit you’re buying from that guy.  For $375, you get a questionable guitar with no warranty and no one to stand behind its craftsmanship. Better to go with the real deal.


Jul 23 2009

Counterfeit Gibson Les Paul Zakk Wylde Green

We have a report of a counterfeit Gibson Zakk Wylde Signature Green. While we have no photos, we have some very good description of the guitar.

In this particular instance, the things that tipped off the store that reported it were the fine details.

- The truss rod cover was “not right” but close.

- The Gibson Logo wasn’t slanted like an authentic Gibson.

- The neck and headstock didn’t have the same angle as an authentic Gibson.

In this case, two people were trying to sell this guitar to a store. If the store hadn’t noticed, it would have lost a lot of money buying a worthless guitar.


Jun 7 2009

A Bevy of Counterfeit Guitars

We found a site the other day that sells counterfeit guitars of many major manufacturers, calling them “Ibanez Style” or “Classic Style” in the case of Gibson. We’re usually interested in giving a very detailed point by point look at a guitar if we happen to have one in our hands, but in this case, we don’t. We have just a few photos that aren’t all that detailed. In this case, I’ve going to give you an idea of what we’d look at if we saw a guitar we suspected was a fake. Understand that these guitars are rarely seen in guitar shops. Dealers deal direct with the manufacturer or authorized distributor. These counterfeits make it into the market by direct order from consumer to the counterfeiter or via unofficial channels such as eBay. As always, if you discover an eBay seller is dealing counterfeits, you can notify us at Gearsecure, and we’ll publicize it across our social network, get in contact with the manufacturer and do what we can to stop the practice.

I’m not going to tell you the domain. We don’t want to give these guys any advertising or traffic. Rest assured we’ll be contacting our contacts at the manufacturers in question to make sure they are aware of the site.

No surprise the site in question originates in China. Undoubtedly some of these instruments are in the wild around the world, including the U.S. When you read the site, you can tell that the copy is written by somebody who isn’t a native English speaker, though the grammar isn’t horrible. There’s hardly any Engrish to make fun of, though the copy is far from brilliant or professional.

Continue reading


May 9 2009

Counterfeit and lawsuit instruments

Manufacturers will go to extreme lengths to protect their brands and trademarks. It is simply a matter of business. Unscrupulous manufacturers will make counterfeit instruments. Other established manufacturers will sometimes make competitive and comparable equipment, and sometimes come a little too close to the product that is already in the marketplace, and what results is a lawsuit.

Manufacturers need to look after their trademarks. Part of the reason behind this is to protect against a customer getting an inferior instrument thinking it is actually from the real brand. The net result of this situation is that the customer no longer trusts the brand, even though they didn’t even make the item in question.

To be clear, this is a different issue from patent infringement. Patents protect inventions, processes and formulas. Trademark refers to the visual shape of something, a logo, a design. In terms of guitars, the body shape and headstock shape. In terms of pedals, a unique housing (the circuit itself would be  patent issue). To look at other ends of the biz, the shape or color scheme of a mixer, the design of a microphone, or the look of a turntable would be the source of trademark infringement. Again, we’re focused on the aesthetics.

So let’s look at the counterfeit issue first. Think about money. If you were going to counterfeit money (don’t try this at home, really), you’d try to match paper, color, size, and every little detail that you can. One thing out of place, and it soon becomes apparent that this bill isn’t right.

Take a look at our first article on a counterfeit, the ’54 Goldtop Reissue. You’ll start picking out the details quickly. But if you aren’t familiar with a ’54 reissue, or the Les Paul in general, the counterfeit instrument looks fairly good.  The counterfeit’s primary aesthetics match very closely. The shape is pretty close to right, the headstock looks good except for the extra screw in the truss rod cover, the colors are off, but close. The functional details are different, the one-part bridge, the wrong pickups, the wrong control configuration.

But sometimes, the match is pretty good. We had a guitar once in our shop that was sold to us as an older Ibanez Jem, and we’re working up a page on it. We bought it in good faith, and even though we carry the same guitar new, we didn’t compare them. I think we were out of stock. Let’s be fair. Sometimes you get an employee who just doesn’t look very hard. I even once had a salesperson try out and buy our own amp once. They aren’t always that bright.

The thing about this Jem copy, though , is that it was old, the chrome was pitted, it had some knicks, it played good, and had good hardware. Not like this Les Paul counterfeit. None of us noticed it was a counterfeit for months, and by that time, we were out the money and we sold it for whatever we could get for it.

Point is, this one was very close, and it was a good guitar.

Counterfeit instruments often have to be just good enough, and usually sell for about a third or less than the real deal. They often get sold on eBay as the real thing, or on several fly-by-night web sites. There once was a “cheapguitarcenter.com” that had dozens of models of Les Paul, PRS, Fender.  They were shut down pretty quickly, and a few months later, we saw one of their guitars walk into the shop with somebody who thought he had a real Zakk Wylde model (the giveaway on this one is the colors really don’t match and the neck is finished, not raw) Les Paul. Poor guy was so bewildered he left it because he didn’t know what else to do with it.

That can give you some idea of how prevalent and widespread these things are. It is interesting to note that a counterfeit guitar is usually a playable instrument if the manufacturer actually wanted to make a brand and establish a company. They would probably sell on the market at about the price of a Mexican made Fender, which is a solid market niche. Often these come from China or a country that isn’t too interested in protecting international trademarks.

Here is the real important distinction, though. A counterfeit guitar will carry the brand name or logo of the guitar it is copying. In the case of some Paul Reed Smith counterfeits I’ve seen, the PRS logo is in a very different font from anything Paul Reed Smith has ever used. Don’t be fooled.

Buying a counterfeit guitar is always a loss.

Let’s turn to lawsuit guitars.

Lawsuit guitars are a different case. The most prominent recent example is the Paul Reed Smith Single Cut guitars. These debuted to the market to great fanfare for the elegant design and great playability. Gibson felt that the design of these was a little too close to that of the Les Paul, and in pressing the lawsuit, production halted.

Demand for these guitars and the value skyrocketed, as for several years it looked like they weren’t going to be made anymore, and the few that were on the market were going to be the rarest of the rare. Eventually, and I’m not sure why, the suit was dropped. These suits are quite complicated and political, so I won’t speculate. Paul Reed Smith was now once again able to produce their single-cuts.

Another famous example of lawsuit guitars is the late 70′s Ibanez copies of the Les Paul and Rickenbacker Bass. I’ve held each of these in my hands on several occasions, and they are very much spot on a recreation of their subject. Ibanez was well-established with their own models at this time, and trying to make it into the American market a bit more than they already were. They already had the Iceman and other designs, so finding a unique shape wasn’t an issue for them. Japan at the time was a haven for copyright and trademark infringement that is similar to what China is today. When these went to market, Ibanez was promptly and rightly sued by Gibson and Rickenbacker. The models were soon pulled, and they are now something of a collector’s item. They are very good instruments. Ibanez obviously has gone on to good things in the marketplace, and all is well.

And to make the most important point here, Ibanez put their name on these instruments, it was the wrong company’s design, but their logo, they were not trying to pass theirs as a Gibson or a Rickenbacker, just their version of those instruments.

I hope this clarifies the difference between these two terms.

One other point of significance is if a guitar store buys a no-name guitar that resembles a Strat, a Gibson or anything else, or a counterfeit, they are not allowed to call it a “Strat copy”. Even that is seen as infringining on the brand trademark.


Apr 1 2009

Counterfeit Alert: Fake Gibson 1954 Goldtop Reissue

Whether you are in the business of buying and selling used or vintage musical instruments or just a collector looking for the guitar that will fill that void in your soul, before you make a purchase take a deep breath and thoroughly examine the piece. There are people out there that want to take your money and leave you with an albatross around your neck.

'54 Custom Shop Reissue?

'54 Custom Shop Reissue?

Here is our counterfeit beside a real Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul. In this case it is a ’56 Reissue, but not everyone has a ’54 Reissue just lying around.

image005

Note the difference in color. The counterfeit on the left has a thin, greenish tint, similar to some Epiphone Les Pauls. Not comparable to the deep gold color of the genuine Gibson.

Have a look at the bridge. From a distance the difference is obvious. A less expensive single PRS style bridge has replaced the two-piece Gibson VOS bridge we see on the real thing.

Those are the most immediately visible clues. Dig a little deeper and a host of problems pop up.

Here is a side-by-side comparison of the back of each headstock:

image006

1. Serial Number – There are a couple of problems here. First, the syntax on the fake is completely wrong. Gibson is very specific about the way it puts serial numbers on its guitars. But that is trivial compared to the fact that the serial number on the right was added after the finish was applied. This resulted in an unprofessional, rough outline. The genuine guitar has a serial number that was added prior to the lacquer finish.
2. Made in USA –  This does not appear on the genuine guitar, and where Gibson does put this phrase it appears lower on the headstock.
3. Craftsmanship – Many of the issues boil down to craftsmanship. Gibson has it, Fakes-R-Us doesn’t. Gibson takes great care to ensure that each guitar that it puts its name on lives up to certain standards. The craftsmanship that produced the sloppy alignment of the non-Gibson tuning heads (below) would not pass their quality control.

image009

Now lets flip the guitars over and have a look at the front.

image010

One thing that you can’t tell from the photographs is the substandard fretwork. As you run a finger down the side of the neck the protruding frets are a big giveaway. On closer examination you can see that the binding on the real Custom Shop carries up over the end of the fret, something the counterfeiters are pretty sure you won’t notice.

Another subtle clue is the difference in the color of the inlays on the fretboard.

As if these details weren’t enough, the genuine Gibson is comprised of two solid pieces of wood. The knock off seems to have been pieced together by laminating whatever scrap lumber happened to be lying around.

In fact there were so many flaws in the wood, I’m just going to give a “Best Of”….

Laminate back on counterfeit Gibson

Laminate back on counterfeit Gibson

There is a solid line all the way around the back of the guitar (above), indicating that a solid piece of wood was glued on to the back. Obviously the counterfeiters knew they were cutting corners here.

Here are a couple more choice examples:

Laminate seam near neck strap button

Laminate seam near neck strap button

Laminate seam in cutaway

Laminate seam in cutaway

And the pièce de résistance, I have never seen a Gibson with a knot like this:

Knot. A big knot.

Knot. A big knot.

On first look some may see what they want to see. If someone says they are selling a ’54 Custom Shop Reissue we would like to take their word for it. That is how this buyer ended up spending $1000 for a cheap Chinese knock off.

To put a little lemon juice on the wound, they can’t even sell the counterfeit for a few hundred bucks to recoup a small part of their losses. That would violate US trademark law and turn this unfortunate purchase into a bigger nightmare.

Before you lay down your hard earned cash, take the time to go over every inch of your potential purchase. If you have questions, ask. If you don’t know, find out. If something looks wrong, pass on it.

Better to have nothing at all than an extremely expensive piece of firewood.

If you know of other counterfeit instruments of any sort out there, or know of a website or eBay seller of counterfeit instruments, please let Gearsecure know by sending email to bryan@gearsecure.net. We are dedicated to personal loss prevention. You can also follow us at twitter.com/gearsecure, myspace.com/gearsecure, and facebook.

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